My Nan talking about the Second World War in London

Six years ago, I got a camcorder and I went to visit Nan... my Nan... in Swindon.

I don't know why I did it.

I heard her talking about, you know, watching flying bombs from her window when she was in Labour with my Dad.

And, I don't know why but I wanted to ask her some questions about the War, Second World War, in London...
and I know she was moved around the country.
I was just curious.
So here's the chat.

It goes on for a LONG time.
So I'm going to be breaking it up into different videos.

I wish I'd followed up with some questions afterwards but I just left the tape in its box - I've just digitised it now. And transcribed it.
The full transcription is below.

But this is what we talked about.
And I'm sorry if I missed anything or didn't follow anything up because...
I can't do it again now. But it's a nice thing.
It's a bit of family history in there,
bit of social history,
bit of oral history,
and some stuff about the Second World War.

Nan talking about the Second World War in London - part 1/5



0:00
You were a researcher, weren't you?
Yeah.
When you started off? Yeah, yeah.
Which is... 15 years ago this summer.
How many? 15.
Only seems the other day, doesn't it. Yeah. Yeah.
They were playing um... they had erm records playing in the car. You know the Top 40 Pick of the Pops.
Oh yes. From that year, and it was like 15 years ago.
I know. Jean went to see Priscilla in the week, at The Palace.
Who's Priscilla?
It's a film. Ooop.
It's a musical show at The Palace.
It was all about transvestites.
Oh Priscilla Queen Of The Desert.
Queen of the theatre. Yes.
I think it was the Queen, or was it the palace. Ooh. That's me.
And she said it was 1988 music.
Oh, you'd know that. She knew the music, you see. Her time.

[EDIT] (1:24 How Kathleen was called up.)
I got discharged then.
When you got pregnant with with Dad?
Your grandad had just got forms for me to be an officer.
Not just a Leading Aircraft Woman.
He wanted me to have a commission, cos he'd got one.
I don't know where to start really.
Actually, I was called up in 1942.
That was working in the Ovaltine Offices. It was called Wander, a Swiss firm.
And then I had papers in and they'd got me... called up?
I was called up. They got me delayed for a while. Said they needed me.
What the Ovaltine Factory?
Offices. No. In Kensington. All the offices.
What did you do there?
Oh well, I was learning shorthand, so I was doing shorthand typing.
I was getting to be a short-



2:36
because once you were married then, you had to leave the firm you know.
You couldn't stay on. A woman left, because she got married, so I got the job. Manage the shorthand typists.
This was 1939? Yes it's be 1939, '40.
So did you start working there before the War started?
Yes. Yes I started before.
And then war was declared. Declared in 1939, and I got the call-up papers you see, and they deferred me. They got me deferred for a while.
The company managed to do that?
They must've done. I got deferred for a while.
But then I was called-up and they couldn't do any more again. You see they got deferred me for a while, I don't know how many months.
Yeah. Because first of all I went for an examination for the ATS (Auxilliary Territorial Service). And they wouldn't accept me because I wore specs.
What's the ATS? The Army Girls. Territorial Army. Yes. They wouldn't accept me for that, but they accepted me in the WAAF (Women's Auxilliary Air Force).
And did you choose to go to the WAAFs?
No I didn't choose anything. They just said what I was to do. I didn't choose anything.
Cos I didn't want to volunteer. When it was the WAAFs I didn't mind.

4:08
So then I went to Gloucester. Called up and went to Gloucester. And the family saw me off at the station. And er, I got kitted out there. We... what were these army sheds? You know those Army huts... Nissan huts? Nissan huts, thank you. You'll have to come to my rescue. Stayed the night in a Nissan hut, with lots of other girls. Wasn't used to that sort of situation.

04:37
So where were you living when you were working at Ovaltine?
I was in Ealing. With mum and dad. Sometimes I cycled there.
And what were they doing at the time?
Who?
Your Mum and Dad.
Dad was a printer. And Mum, I think sometimes Mum did making jam. Two teachers retired, and they were private schools I think and they were making jam. Mum must have seen a notice somewhere, and she was helping them. She took their dogs out for a walk. And she was buying us a piano was it? It was something.
She did jobs like that to buy a piano for us to have music lessons.

And this was in Ealing. Where you lived, because I don't know any of this, do you know where it was, the address or anything?
I don't remember where because she used to go when they went away, she used to go to their house and take the dog out. You know for walks and things like that, and I can't remember what the address is now.

So you lived in Ealing, and you commuted into the Ovaltine -- Kensington,
yes. Every day.
And you were there before the war. And then-- do you know roughly when you joined the WAFF.

Yes in um, 42. 42?
So it was a good 3 years in the office?
Oh yes, I must've been. I must've gone there at 15. Must've done. And went through different departments. Until I got to be a Manager's typist. Shorthand typist.
I know I cycled. And yet when I first bought a bike. Well my dad bought me the bike. I said I'd pay you back, but I never did. It's only about 30 bob then. I used to go out with Grandad, with Eric. And we used to go riding around somewhere. I wouldn't go right! Cos I couldn't go right. So I had to keep going round to the left. Because you were scared to turn in the traffic? Scared to turn right yes! And then in the end I cycled to Kensington! So I got over that.

So I don't know when did you meet Grandad?
16. Oooh I was 16 at evening classes. So that was around 193...8? 1940?
(Twenty one, thirty one...) about 37 wouldnt it be. When I was 16. No it was before 16 when I met him. I'm sure I wasn't 16. Cos what was I doing? I was learning shorthand you see. In evening classes? In evening classes. He was doing everything. Like Accountancy, and Drama. Everything - what different lessons? Oh yes. Cos he said he saw me... I don't know whether the Principal was probably acknowledging us all, and thanking us for going. And coming, and do this that and the other, I can't remember what we were told to do. And he was supposed to have seen me. In the thing. And he must've said to someone, who is that over there? And they said oh that's um and they thought it was somebody else. He didn't know it was me, my name at all. So he must've got to know me that way. I don't remember all that. I must've met him there and got chatting, and preceeded from there.


(Hoover Factory, or Headquarters. Perivale. Or is it Greenford. London. Or Middlesex.)

8:47
And what job was he doing at the time?
He was working in Hoover's at the time. That was his first job. Hoover's in Perivale.
Do you know what he did there?
No, I should just think he was an office worker, I should think. Cos the next job, then he went to um, went to Hayes, Borough Council. Then he went to Greenford. Borough Council? Yes, and that was all to do with Ealing borough council. All to do with that.
And was that in cleansing? Must've been. Yes, must've been. Don't know whether it was called cleansing, suppose it was.

And then of course when he was called up, when he got discharged, he did all the exams for engineering. Cos he wanted to go to University. But he couldn't pay for it then. I don't know if they were taking adults then, after the war. Do you? I wouldn't know that.
He did it at home, it wouldn't be like... the Open University. That's where he did all his exams. He did two lots of engineering. I threw the certificates away when we moved from Castle Dore.

10:23
So when you were working at Ovaltine, Grandad was working in... Hoovers. Hoover, but was he immediately called up?
No, he volunteered. Knowing your Grandad. He would volunteer for something he wanted to do. He wouldn't want to be told what to do. Or what services to go in!
So he went to the RAF? Yes, RAF, volunteer reserve. Was it called volunteer reserve? See I've forgotten lots of these things. Neil, I'm not very good. Volunteer reserve, I believe.
https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/units/5119/royal-air-force-volunteer-reserve/

He was a volunteer first of all in the RAF.
11:00
So then, that was in 1939, he went straight away, into the RAF?
39, yes.
Was he based in Northolt then?
He went to Northolt. West Drayton. Northolt. And then Uxbridge.

11:18
And then of course, I think it was the year I was pregnant. So that'd be 44 wouldn't it. Jan/February, he was called abroad then.

-----



Here's the second part of the chat with Nan:

(First part was here).



And here's the transcript (timings are for the full video here)
(Click CC on the bottom of the video player to bring up subtitles.)

That was when I was discharged in the Christmas from the RAF. Christmas '42?
Yes, well I was married while I was in the WAAFs, I first went to Gloucester to get kitted out, then we were sent to Morecambe to do our training... then after that I was just sent to Bournemouth...
with the Canadians (Canadian Air Force), stayed there for a few months, then sent to Brighton.
With the Australians (Australian Air Force).
I was a stencil typist then. Because they ask you, when they interview you.
What are you doing? You see.
So I was in an office, naturally they wanted me to do the same sort of thing in the WAAFs.


(WAAF recruitment poster from the time...)

12:25
I would've liked to learn how to drive, really.
Because then I would've had to do it, wouldn't I?! Would've got over my fear.
When they provide the training for that kind of thing.
That's right. And then I was discharged from Brighton. So it was not exciting at all. The Maoris were there... we had parties. You know, concerts and dances, naturally.


(all photos via Australian War Memorial)

So how does that work, that they had different nationalities in different towns? You said the Australians were in Brighton? They just use that as a base for the Australian Air Force?
'Cos I worked there, I think they were all waiting to be sent somewhere, abroad you see, and I was doing officers records.
Stencilling them.
They had to be ran off.

13:25
It was in the hotel I worked in that Maggie Thatcher was in, you know it was bombed?
Oh yeah, the Grand Hotel? That's where you worked?
I worked in that one. And the hotel where I lived was only a few doors down the road.
At another hotel, a small one.


(the view from where she worked...
from around the time she worked there)

13:40
So when you're working there, was there any flying nearby, or was it just an administrative place?
Just administrative, that's all.
And did they clear the people out of the town then?
No. Normal town. Because I used to go get the station from Brighton to, gosh, was it Victoria? Because your Grandad was still at Uxbridge, and he used to come up and meet me, then he used to take me back when I went on Sunday night.


(the walk home from Brighton station around the time Nan was er... stationed there)

14:14
So you'd stay there during the week, in Brighton? And they'd put you up in a hotel?
Sometimes you'd have to stay there, you know. You get um, you work so many weeks, then you have to have a week "on duty" as they'd call it.
Not doing anything but you're there, you know!



So did you live in Brighton then, and go home for the weekend?
At the hotel, yes. All week, then I used to go home on Friday night.
And was it run like a hotel? Or was it like a WAAF thing?
Well I think it was run more like a WAAF, not like a hotel.
It was Hotley's (Hockleys?) Hotel, but it wasn't really.
They just used the building?
Yes just used the building.

14:57
So you had, what WAAF rations there?
Five inches of water, you know, and all the baths were painted. And you had three in our room. And you have to make your bed every day.
What the water line was painted? On the bath, yes.
So you couldn't put more water in?
No, no. Five inches I think it was. 'Cos showers weren't even conceived then, were they!
So you had to fill the water up to the line that was painted on?
Yes.

15:28
Just going back, because it's interesting, I don't know how... You're just bringing it back to me cos I can't remember.
Just to follow the story...um... Grandad went into the RAF, and you were in Kensington intially for 3 years.
That's right.
And um did you meet Grandad at the weekends then, because he was in, or... was he just all over the place?
He used to cycle over at night, used to see him most days!
Cos you were living in Ealing, and he was living in Greenford.

16:15
With his mum and dad?
His mum. His dad died... while I was going with him.
He was over with me one night, and um, his Uncle came and a friend to say his Dad had died at work at 42.
I think it was just 42 or 47, I can't remember.
He had a heart attack.
And Eric remembered the night before, the day before that he'd got pains in his shoulder.
And this was Alexander Mossey?
So he collapsed in the lavatory I think on the cloakroom at work.
I think he worked at.
Oh god where did he work now.
No good me trying to remember that.
I think he was at some sort of an engineer.
No it won't come to me.
Quite local really I think, Paddington area, Westbourne Park was it?
I think that's where he worked. To do with the railways.

17:20
And then, you went to Gloucester initially?
Got called up, had to go get kitted out somewhere in Gloucester.
Innsworth I think it was? I can't even remember the name of it.
That rings a bell, think I've driven past that. Not far away anyway.

17:42
And what was your rank, I don't know the terminology?
Just an Ordinary Leading Aircraft Woman - something like that. No rank. Just the lowest of the low.
And did they train you?
Just marching. Just for marching. That's all, we had to learn marching.
The first day we were there, I just don't know how it was, or whether we were just sent round to the commands that we were with.
But Vera Lynn was on at the theatre.
So we all went along there.
You soon make friends with people, don't you.

18:20
How did it feel going to.. were you in Gloucester for long?
No. Was it a week. We were there just a week to get kitted out. And the haversack. Kit bag.

18:35
Did it feel odd, because you've left home?
Yes. Especially living in the Nissan Hut with all these other girls, just for a week.
Got used to it though!
And would you've stayed with these girls?
No. Don't really know them.
Don't think I went with any of them, again.
They were all doing different things.
Some were cooking... some, don't know what they were doing.
So it was just an orientation week, just to get you all-- kitted out.

19:12
So did you get your uniform on the first day?
Do you know I can't remember that. Must've done. Must've done. And you did some marching.
When we got to Morecambe. Then we had passing out parade. Learn how-
At the end of the week?
I think we were at Morecambe a month.
Okay, so you went from Gloucester, for a week, to Morecambe. And what was, was that a different bunch of girls then?
Oh I think so, yes.
It was only when I got to Brighton that I was in with Anne Dalby and Georgina, that um her husband was in Tanmere.
That's how we got friendly.
Then I got friendly with the girl, she was in the office.

20:00
And she recommended a place in Torquay to have our honeymoon.
Where Grandad and I went on honeymoon, to Torquay.

20:16
So you went to Morecambe for a month. And was that more marching?
Just marching. Any other training? No other training. No, just marching.

And how do they know what you can do? Do you have to tell them?
Yes, we had interviews.
And that's where they wanted to know what I was doing, in private, you know.
In my private life.

And what did you do the rest of the time?
God, I don't know. I know it was blackout.
Ooh, this house we stayed in - it was as gloomy... Do you know I can't remember the meals.
I know someone had gone through my case and took a collar.
So that must've been one of the girls that were there.
I can't remember those at all.

21:05
And so you were staying in a house in Morecambe?
Yes that's right. I expect the woman was paid you see, to have us there.
I don't remember making friends there at all, isn't it funny.
Some people you do, don't you.
But we did when I got to Brighton, I did.

21:28
So at the end of the Morecambe month?
We all had to get to... Bournemouth.
And did you say you had a passing out parade?
Yes.
Was that in Morecambe?
Yes, that was in Morecambe.
Did your parents come to that?
No, it was just for the us WAAFs.
And then basically they tell you where you're going next?
That's right. I can't remember how I was told or anything like that.
Were you the only one to go to Brighton, do you think?
I don't think so.
I think a group of us must've gone.
But I can't remember that.



Shot this video below last year, and using it as an intro to Part 3 of Nan talking about life in Wartime London (and Brighton and Bournemouth, where she was stationed).

It's what got me (a year later) to finally upload it to YouTube.

Press CC for subtitles - there's a full transcript below.
Hoping the intro will lead into the chat, shot 6 years ago.

This video includes:
0:00 On buying a wedding ring in wartime Bournemouth
1:10 Waching the doodlebugs (flying bombs) from her maternity hospital bed flying across Shepherd's Bush
2:00 More on working for the Royal Australian Air Force as a WAAF.
3:50 On planning for a wartime wedding in Ealing
6:00 Everyday sexism from a British RAF sergeant
6:30 Kath's engagement in 1942



Transcript (timings are for the full video here)

22:14
So you were sent to Brighton, when you go to Brighton, do you know for how long it's going to be?
No. I didn't know that. No. 'Cos it's was Bournemouth, I didn't know how long we were gonna be at Bournemouth. 'Cos I bought my wedding ring there. It was a jewellers along there. And I could only get platinum.

22:38
So when you went to Brighton, you were still coming home to London?
That's right, I didn't get home so quick from Bournemouth. I can't remember how long we were in Bournemouth. If your Dad were here, if Grandad were here, he'd know.

22:56
It's funny I can blot out things. I do blot out things. And some things you know really clearly. Yes, I can see it. But other things I can blot out and forget it completely.

23:10
So when you're in Brighton, you're working on the seafront, basically?
Yes, in the Metropole.
And was it odd, did you see planes flying over?
No, no.


The hospital in 1985. (source)


The actual windows of the Queen Charlotte's maternity hospital in 1965, (when Ringo Starr's son was born there - source)

23:24
It was worse when I got back and had your Dad.
I was in Queen Charlotte's (Stamford Brook August 1944) and we could watch the Doodlebugs going across, you know, with all the flame outside the back of it.

We knew it was going to drop it somewhere.
Didn't have anything like that at (Brighton) - we had barbed wire across the front, of course, but nothing else...



Doodlebug (V1 Rocket) before... and after (1944) - explained here

23:57
I wanted to ask again about... because dad's quite hazy about... the later years of the war... but um, so basically it sounds like quite an office job?
Office work, that's right.
Typing the same as I'd been doing.
Stencilling for the officers, for the Australian Officers.
Some had died, you know and some had got illness, it was all on there.

24:30
So all the information would come into Brighton, and it would be typed up and would go off to different records?
I suppose it would. I don't know where we put them.
We had a sergeant in charge of us. Was that a WAAF sergeant?
No, it was a man sargeant. Was he Australian? No he was English.
That's funny, isn't it... It feels odd that all the British organised their admin.

25:00
This girl, Georgina, she did their laundry. She patches the Australian's laundry that needed to go out.
So were the Australians in Brighton?
Yes they were actually in the hotel, in the rest of the hotel. The Metropole.
Were they just the officers?
No, not only the officers. Other airmen as well. I think there were flyers...

25.35
And this was their base, and then they'd send them off to an airfield?
They must do... send them to an airfield yes. We'd have some fun with those. They'd come in the office, you know... They must've been really far from home. Yes, they were, weren't they.

25.55
So you said you had a couple of friends. One of them did the laundry.
Yes, I can't remember what Anne did now... it was the other girl. She lived in Southampton. She recommended the woman where we went to, like a B&B in Torquay for our honeymoon. And she'd recommended it.

I think she came to our wedding... When you think really, they're quite selfish, aren't you. Because I think my Dad saw to her. I'm sure he did. I don't know whether she stayed the night at home. My Dad was... I didn't even ask how much you know, the cost of the wedding or anything. I've looked back and thought, "how selfish I must've been". That's the whole point of a wedding. "I'm spoilt" as my sister would say. That's the whole point isn't it, it's supposed to be a family event for the bride. I think Carolyn did more, didn't she. And I think your Mum had to get insurance for that wedding. Did she? That's what Jean told me, I didn't even know that. Cos Jean said she doesn't know if she could've done that. I think you can buy them off the shelf, can't you. I don't know what it covers. Well of course Kirsty is going to get married, isn't she. When she can afford it.

27:38
Because I've not even got to the wedding yet. Can you remember any of the Australians? Can you remember what they were like? Or who they were? Or... anything.
No, just a bit of fun you know when we'd meet up. I don't think I ever went out with one. I used to go out with a Canadian in Bournemouth. And one of the Canadians taught me how to play snooker.

Was this in Bournemouth?
That's in Bournemouth, yes. But we didn't go out with any of the Australians - none of us.

28:12
What was your day like? Was it a 9-5? Was it quite military?
Yes it'd be like that - I can't remember the time, but that's what it would be like. Because it sounds like - you had to be there in office time.
It sounds like it was organised like an office, rather than a military... it was... office-like.

28:36
Because I didn't like the sergeant - that male sergeant. I had my ring taken off - because it had to be made smaller. And of course he'd make jibes then. Oh, you're trying to leave your wedding ring behind... and make out your not married. These kind of things. He wasn't a very nice man. There's other things he probably said, that's why I didn't like him.

28:59
And were you engaged at the time?
Yes I was engaged. When did you get engaged? At 21? When I was 21.
So that was 1942, when you went to Brighton.
I think it was before then... It was before my birthday. Before I was called up.
So you were called up after your birthday?
I'm sure it must've been. In the probably towards the end of the year. I think it must've been November. Oh god, so you were in Morecambe in November/December? Mmmm.
I can't remember if I came home that first Christmas. I can't remember. Can't remember that.